A Beginner’s Guide to Surviving AWS re:Invent with Chris Hill

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Transcript

Chris Hill: That's the important part about this too, is making sure that we help get the information you want to convey to the audience out there. So everything that we do is focused around making sure that, yeah, we have some funny elements to it, but also that we provide you all with informative information, provide the audience with informative information as we go.

Corey Quinn: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. One of the core tenets of being a decent human being when you employ people is treating your employees super well. That sort of leads to the question then, who can you possibly mistreat? The correct answer is, of course, your vendors. Joining me today is Chris Hill, who I treated in the worst possible way late last year.

Corey Quinn: By making him attend AWS reInvent with me. Chris, how are you doing?

Chris Hill: I'm alive. Magically. Amazingly. I'm very glad. Two and a half

Corey Quinn: months later, we're finally ready to go ahead and have this conversation. My voice is mostly back to normal. So yeah, that was an experience. But rather than telling you what it was like, why don't you tell me?

Corey Quinn: I've been going to these things since 2018. So I'm curious to know what your take on it was, having been in the orbit of it with all the production nonsense that we've done in years past, but this time you were there in person for the first time. Tell us about it.

Chris Hill: It was, it was wild. I've been to some other conferences in Las Vegas before, so I have a little bit of a feel for it, but nothing on the scale of reInvent.

Chris Hill: I went to, and your audience may not know that, know this group, but the National Sports Forum, I went there several years ago and it was really fun, but it was a very small, intimate gathering by comparison. I don't know what I had in mind, but I thought, Oh, this won't be too bad. And when we got there, it was just insanity from day one, just the, the pace that we had to keep for production, shooting with you.

Chris Hill: And then also like getting in and going to the event on the showroom floor, things like that. It was, It was quite wild. So, yeah, it was mind boggling. The scale and everything of the show was just kind of wild to me.

Corey Quinn: Something that I keep forgetting every time I'm there is that I camp out at the Venetian for the entire week.

Corey Quinn: I have to sort of force myself to go outside for things. And yeah, you and I scrambled around. throughout the various parts of Las Vegas on the weekend beforehand, getting a bunch of shots of me falling out of a car and whatnot, and that was great. But I'm curious, uh, did you get to go to any of the other venues?

Corey Quinn: Because I always lose sight of the fact that, oh right, This isn't in just one hotel casino thing, it's in six or seven. I, I didn't get to see the other stuff at all, did you?

Chris Hill: I did not, no. We were, we were either running footage back to our hotel, which we had made the wonderful decision to stay in the hotel, which we thought was adjacent.

Chris Hill: to you guys and ended up being a little further away than we had initially planned. So we were either running there or we were shooting with you on site or somewhere off site. I saw a lot in between running back and forth. I mean, Vegas is intended to get you lost, intended to get you sucked into a casino, right?

Chris Hill: There was a lot of getting lost and getting confused, especially early in the week as we found our bearings, but I didn't really have the chance to see a whole lot else just given the insanity of the event.

Corey Quinn: It's, the reason that when Mike and I first became business partners and we were talking about the idea, I dragged him to reinvent with me because I, I knew that without being there and experiencing it yourself, you'll hear the various tips that I tend to give people like, Oh, make sure you stay at the actual resort casino that you're going to be spending the most of your time in.

Corey Quinn: Otherwise, it sounds like a nice to have. And then the first time people go, they generally don't. And, oh, that's, they're close on the map, but that's a 45 minute walk to get across the street. What's the deal with that? And I knew that if I didn't have Mike there from the beginning to see what it was like, he was going to ask me to do things that were, frankly, ridiculous.

Corey Quinn: And, like, I don't understand why you just aren't willing to pop across the street for a 10 minute meeting. It's because that takes two hours. But no one believes it until they go there and live through it. So I have to ask, if I can arm twist you into doing it again this year, what would you do differently based upon how you found it last year?

Chris Hill: I mean, the obvious is stay at the Venetian. Like being, being separate from you guys from a production standpoint was a big challenge. And I think there were, there were some logistical things there. I think we, we know to do it differently this year, but anything that looks close is not as close as it seems.

Chris Hill: Like you said, the weird thing for me is like, we've been doing this for you guys for years, we've been doing all the production, but I've always said it from my home studio, the one you. Uh, for those watching, see me in today, this lovely studio here at home, but for the most part, the production has been done remotely.

Chris Hill: And so there was kind of this surreal experience that was one of the things for my first time as I'm thinking through it, like that was really wild, was that I had seen footage. Countless hours of footage from you and from other people on your team that have filmed at that location. And then to actually be there just felt like, Oh, I know this already.

Chris Hill: Like I've seen Corey walk these halls and his videos. And yeah, it was just kind of a surreal all around feeling, but yeah, I would definitely, I would definitely say logistics wise, like be in the same location as you guys was the biggest thing and then probably getting a better Better lay of the land. I thought we did a good job of it, but I think doing more of an actual tour of Vegas when we get in town and make sure we know where everywhere we're going before we go there.

Chris Hill: I think that would probably have helped too, but you know, lessons learned.

Corey Quinn: I've got to warn you, the canal shops in the Palazzo and the Venetian, I have been going to reinvent again since 2018. I still get turned around and lost hopelessly in that space every freaking time. And, and let's be clear, it's not solely because I'm bad with directions, it's because these places are explicitly designed to be more or less the Hotel California.

Corey Quinn: People get in and wander around, and the longer they do that, the likelier they are to spend money on things, and there's, there's a whole psychology working against you in these moments. But there's a sense of scale to it that I didn't really appreciate till I'd been doing this for a while and the first year I went while wearing an Apple watch or something like that.

Corey Quinn: It was, wow, I walked how many steps that day? It was that it felt ridiculous. Just I would and I'm sure like before that you would ask me to upload a video like great Let me go back to my tell room and do that for you and an hour would go by and you'd think I was just you Know faffing around. Nope. It took me that long to get there And then probably another twice that for the crappy internet in the hotel to wind up uploading the video, but that's neither here nor there.

Corey Quinn: I wanted you to be the person there to upload the video, hold the flashlight, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The 2021, uh, mid pandemic was the worst one for me, just because I had to do it all myself. I had no one else there with me. I'm doing it all with a selfie stick and crappy internet, because that was the year the Wi Fi didn't work, and all kinds of other nonsense where I'm just chasing my own tail uphill and down dale, and I, I just laid in a bag afterwards and breathed into it for like the next three weeks.

Corey Quinn: I was useless until at least the new year. Some would say I was useless until at least 2025, but that's a separate argument.

Chris Hill: Yeah, I, I would say I remember the flashbacks on my side of that of just like, Corey, we need this from you. Hey, where are you on this? Like a lot of that was like. Like I have a lot more perspective and a lot more empathy for that, having been, been there, done that and dealt with all that.

Chris Hill: And I will say like, there's a huge advantage to being physically there with you because we don't have to upload things. I just put it onto a drive and hand it to my editor and we keep running. So, so there were a lot of good things there. But yeah, I remember getting lost with you actually in, um, in that Palazzo area.

Chris Hill: When we were out there, so yeah, it's, you're, you're not wrong. It is the Hotel California.

Corey Quinn: It's also always worth noting that the best plans are always going to go awry when it comes to these things with scheduling and the rest, like, okay, you're supposed to be here for a shoot. Where are you? It's like, yeah, hang on.

Corey Quinn: I'm getting the snot kicked out of me by the managed NAT gateway pricing team in an alley. I'll be back as soon as the blood stops flowing. It'd be great. There's always these things that pop up emergently and. You don't want to wind up cutting off great conversations just to go and, uh, check a box. I mean, there's some things you have to.

Corey Quinn: If you're giving a talk, it really does behoove you to be there on time. But if it's, oh, yeah, I'm gonna go, I have to go meet someone for a cup of coffee, well, text them and say, yeah, I'm running ten minutes late. Like that, that, that is a reasonable thing to do. What I've never been a huge fan of is people texting you five minutes afterwards saying, oh, I'm still 20 minutes away.

Corey Quinn: You could have said this a while ago. Like, you know, like, I think you're somehow hoping like it's at the very last minute that you can bend physics. Generally speaking, you can't.

Chris Hill: Well, and I think that's also one of the hard things too, because I can remember one of the shots that we had to do in front of the sphere.

Chris Hill: I was like, Oh, I'm right there. I'll be there like five minutes and then realized, Oh no, I still have to go down through the Venetian to get to this dang thing.

Corey Quinn: And it's bigger than it looks like on the pictures and whatnot. Like, Oh, I'm on the sphere. I'm on the wrong side of it. How long could it possibly take to walk around the outside? Longer than you'd think.

Chris Hill: Yeah, it is, it is, um, it's like a reverse Tardis. It's bigger on the outside than it is on the in.

Corey Quinn: Oh, absolutely. And I find too, this is my own personal failure mode where I am caught up in so many different threads that I'm running mentally in terms of I'm, I'm working on this thing, I have to prepare some stuff for this other thing.

Corey Quinn: Okay, we do the video shoot now. Great. And I worry that Like, some things start to get dropped. Among them, at least in my case, feel like there are a lot of social niceties. Like, I joked at the beginning of this episode, like, oh yeah, just beat the crap out of your vendors. But no, don't do that. Don't be unpleasant to the people who make your business work on some level.

Corey Quinn: Otherwise, heck for all I know, like the video, uh, thumbnail of a given episode or video is just me mid sneeze. It'll be great. It's the, yeah, check out what this jack wagon wants. We're gonna just mess with his color balance. It'll be glorious. And by glorious, we mean for us and for no one else. It's, it's not just the self serving thing.

Corey Quinn: It's be a decent person. And I worry that with all the stress and the planning and the rest, I find that my, my usual efforts to be extraordinarily polite, and if not that, baseline civil, start to erode. I don't love what that

Corey Quinn: says about me.

Chris Hill: I mean, it's, it's a tough thing. You know, you're, you're there to network, connect with people, and then you've also got this added pressure of, Hey, we need to create this content to make sure that the Screaming in the Cloud audience, Last Week in AWS audience, has the content to understand what's going on at this event, and gets entertained at the same time.

Chris Hill: So Yeah, you're being pulled two different directions. The time it takes to do that. And then on top of that, our team, like the time it takes us at night to get through it, you know, talking about beating up. I mean, we were up until 3am several nights in a row trying to get things out and done and produced for you guys, but that's part of it.

Chris Hill: This is part of what we do. And, you know, we're talking through, okay, how do we make this more efficient for next year? And what can we do to make this easier on everybody already on our side? Cause You know, we, we understand that coming into an event like this, we're just going to be running and gunning the whole time, but there's definitely an element to where it's like, if we can make this better on everybody, how do we do that?

Chris Hill: I'd

Corey Quinn: love to know. It's a, we always do a retro that's relatively well produced every year to figure out, okay, what are we going to do next year? And there are some things I think get dropped by the wayside throughout the year because it feels less urgent. Like, it was really planned this in June. June rolls around.

Corey Quinn: Yeah, I'm not really in the mood to think about that this week. And suddenly it's October and oh crap, I think we've gotten better about that, but not perfect. I think that there's a, there's also the challenge of course is people tend to assume that. I have a list of everything that AWS is about to announce or drop.

Corey Quinn: Last year, I think I had two, maybe three things that I knew were coming out of dozens. And I was learning about them at the same time that everyone else was. So We don't know what's going to happen. We don't know, is Adam Solipski going to get on stage and do the Andy Jassy style, one giant breath and then renounce 200 enhancements, uh, over the course of 45 minutes and then need oxygen?

Corey Quinn: Or is he going to, you know, be Adam Solipski and he's going to talk in circles around a few things for a while? The usual tropes of what Amazon loves to talk about. Gen AI this year. And then announce a couple of things and then everything else gets metered out throughout the week. Well, it turns out the last couple of years, the second one, but you always have to have contingency plans.

Corey Quinn: What if, what if, what if? Because otherwise, standing there in front of the camera, I got nothing. is not usually compelling and neither is, well, I'm committed to be on camera for this long so it's time for me to waste everybody's time. The jokes are good, don't get me wrong, but that's not the only reason people listen to this.

Corey Quinn: People's time is valuable and just stand up comedy by itself does not deliver the value people expect from a professional event like this. Not to devalue stand up comedy,

Chris Hill: mind you. No, and I mean, that's, that's the important part about this too, is making sure that we help get the information you want to convey to the audience out there.

Chris Hill: So, everything that we do is focused around making sure that, yeah, we have some funny elements to it, but also that we provide you all with informative information, provide the audience with informative information as we go. So Yeah, but yeah, it's, it's definitely a balancing act. I remember walking with you through the, what would you call it?

Chris Hill: The conference room floor. Well, I don't know why I'm thinking conference room floor. Um, Expo Hall, Expo Hall. That's the word I'm looking for.

Corey Quinn: By the breakout sessions over in the Venetian with the, uh, where they wind up deviating off into the EBCs and the standup sessions and the rest. I like doing that in the middle of the night.

Corey Quinn: We were recording some b roll, and a couple of times we had security guards come over and look at us strangely, like, are you trying to sabotage things? It's like, no, if we were doing that, we'd be on the keynote talking about generative

Chris Hill: AI. Security guards were definitely a fun topic of discussion. I don't know that we want to complain too much about them, um, because they're probably listening.

Chris Hill: Kidding. No,

Corey Quinn: no, they were great. They were very nice. The problem is that they've been given instructions that in many cases make absolutely no sense. Like, for example, we were doing a couple outside shots at one point at a casino and they were like, I'm sorry, you can't do that with, uh, with your DSLR, your large camera.

Corey Quinn: You said, okay, but could I use an iPhone? Absolutely. And, and I'm not a big photography nerd, I understand that DSLR is objectively better in a number of ways. But iPhones still shoot 4K video, so it's, it's really a meaning without distinction. You'll get a better production quality from a full on professional camera rig, but Everything, but you're just going to get something perfectly serviceable off the phone in your pocket.

Corey Quinn: So what exactly is the point of that distinction? And they had no idea, but again, we don't want to get beaten up by large people with no neck. So of course we're going to do what they're doing. We're not there to make their lives more difficult, Denny. But it was, it was fun having figured out where the line is.

Chris Hill: It was definitely fun towing the line there. Um, yeah, and I, I definitely was a little bewildered when they were like, Oh yeah, you could do that, but you just, you just can't use that camera. And I was like, Oh, okay. All right. We'll get the same shot. Thank you. And they, they even laughed when you ran by and we did that shot.

Corey Quinn: Well, I also faceplanted the door. I don't think they expected that to happen.

Chris Hill: It was good. It was good.

Corey Quinn: Remember, for a lot of this too, I'm wearing that ridiculous race suit with, uh, last week in AWS emblazoned on it. They're like, oh, are you here for a, uh, like, are you here for the race? Like, no, why? It was great.

Corey Quinn: I love playing games like that with people. It was, it was neat getting a lot of those shots and exploring a lot of those things. But, but I have to ask back to the substantive part of the conference itself, going into it, how much did you know about what AWS does? And what did you take away?

Chris Hill: I mean, I understand AWS quite a bit from working with you all these years. I still feel like on some levels I have a surface knowledge just because, you know, there's a lot that we have to do on the technical side and my focus can be elsewhere from time to time.

Corey Quinn: So say we all. There's a spot of AWS for every person on this planet where they feel that way.

Chris Hill: Yeah, but I mean, it's, I've definitely started to delve into it.

Chris Hill: I mean, from my perspective in the media side, like seeing some of the media production work that they're starting to do, the stuff in the cloud and processing and stuff like that. I'm just, you know, dreaming of the day when reInvent, we can just put stuff into the cloud and have it processed there just as seamlessly as some of the stuff that they were

Corey Quinn: showing us.

Corey Quinn: They claim you can with things like a lot of their elemental stuff and a lot of their media side, uh, side services as well. The problem that I've always had with those services is I look at them. And first, it presupposes that your editorial team has a existing suite of tools that happen to be what AWS provides.

Corey Quinn: Because if not, you're going to have a bad time. And the economics have always scared me away because I tend to think of it in terms of, okay, then we're going to wind up giving this to everyone who comes by and that those egress prices will go bankrupt before lunchtime. Yeah, in practice, we wouldn't do that.

Corey Quinn: We just take it out once. The pricing is okay, but for something like this, budget's not really the limiting factor. The amount of footage we have vis a vis the period of time we're doing it in, it's, we're not going to break the bank on that. It comes down to a pure capability story. But getting some of these things implemented for a production team takes a lot of time and effort and work, and you folks already have tools that you use and are not super likely to want to retrain everyone on the new stuff.

Chris Hill: No, I mean, that's a big part of it. Like having to retrain people. Then also, you know, looking at costs and stuff, this is where I would say I've had the most quintessential AWS experience. I opened an AWS account. I think you had said at one point, Hey, Chris, there's this media thing that, um, AWS is doing.

Chris Hill: You should check it out. So I spun up a server. I started looking into it and about a month or two later, I started getting a 35 bill. And I was like, where is this coming from? And I had to go and like, dig in. And they were like, oh yeah, there was a hidden charge somewhere that I didn't know about. I thought it was all free.

Corey Quinn: 35 sounds close to Nath Gateway for instance hour for the money for the month or you left an instance running either way could go either one on that one.

Chris Hill: I think I did I managed to isolate it and get rid of it but it it was hilarious um to me because I was like I need to tell Corey about this at some point so.

Chris Hill: There you go.

Corey Quinn: Well, the annoying part for most people is not the 35 dollars a month, because that's, okay, I should figure out what that is and stomp it out. It's people I know who are getting dinged for, what, 20 cents here and there every month. Like, you know, it's annoying, but not annoying enough that I'm going to spend five minutes to go in to figure out what the hell is causing it and turn it off.

Corey Quinn: I just, that's the tax on going about my business. And people have asked in the varying degrees of sincerity of. You think that's where a lot of AWS's money comes from? Okay, assume hypothetically that they have 2 million accounts like that, each one being charged an average of a dollar. Yeah, I don't think 2 million dollars a month is going to be where AWS is making the, what, nearly 100 billion dollars a year that it's generating?

Corey Quinn: Yeah, I have a really hard time seeing my way clear to that. And I don't think this is intentional. Truly, I don't. I don't think that that is something that they set out to do. I just think that it is hard to give an almost 2 trillion company the benefit of the doubt. So anytime they do anything at this point in time, it's hard not to view it through the worst lens imaginable of, all right, how are they out there trying to screw people over to boost their own margins?

Corey Quinn: And I don't think that there's a concerted effort to do it. Frankly, I don't think they have the organizational capacity to do anything like that. They have too many people going in too many different directions for it to ever be viable. But it feels like there's a conspiracy. In reality, the answer is always far simpler and less exciting.

Chris Hill: Oh yeah. I mean, and I think that's the way it is in a lot of cases with a lot of things, but like with this specifically, like I know it's just me not being knowledgeable, getting in there, toying around and realizing, Oh, I turned something on that I didn't mean to. So yeah, I don't have any hard feelings towards AWS for that.

Corey Quinn: It's the weird stuff that, that annoys me, like when they start charging for a thing six months after I turned it off, that drove me up a wall. There are countless times where I'll leave something running and, oh yeah, I forgot to turn that off, a few days later, alarm goes off, that just cost me 40 bucks.

Corey Quinn: Well, that's on me. I should, I should have known better on those things. I don't kick up a snore, I don't kick up a fuss and whine. When I make mistakes, I think that there are times where it's worth making the argument when it feels like there is almost a concerted effort to avoid people from noticing these things.

Corey Quinn: But it's all a hard problem and it's not where you're going to be able to spend all your innovation energy if you're AWS. I mean the only somewhat recurring challenge I've had with you folks and again it's one of those things that I think a lot of folks wish they had this problem, where, Okay, Chris, we have now spent cumulatively six hours on getting this sound profile for this microphone and my voice dialed in.

Corey Quinn: Are we at a point of diminishing returns, or is this good enough? Remembering that we're not here to, you know, record a Grammy winning album. We're here to basically take my extemporaneous, uh, shitposting just thoughts about whatever it is that Cloud has done this week. And, like, is this sufficient to the task?

Corey Quinn: And you almost have to, like, shake yourself out of, oh, oh yeah, right. We're not doing this for, this is not the Audiophiles podcast. And, again, I sound incredible. I get complimented on it all the time. But at some point it's like, okay, this is good enough for, for use. I remember historically I had a, another podcasting company I was working with in the very early days and they had no recommendations whatsoever.

Corey Quinn: So I was, looked, scraped me through the internet. And then there was a second team that was great. They just kept changing the recommendations every two weeks. So it's like, okay, now four generations in, brought you in was, okay, here's what I want. Here's the, uh, budget I'm looking at here, tell me what to get.

Corey Quinn: And it was, I'm still weirded out because what, four, five years in, I'm still using the same microphone, like what? Aren't I supposed to have thrown this in the trash and replaced it with three more by now? There's a new one on the Shiny website, isn't that going to be better? Yeah, it's a microphone from the 70s, not so much.

Chris Hill: I mean, you're using a radio mic, basically, right now.

Corey Quinn: And I have a face for radio, that's not necessarily that far apart.

Chris Hill: With what we do, like, I have a big focus on fixing things in pre. Basically, make sure that the Tools that you're using, the assets that you're using, like everything you're creating is ready to go once it's recorded as much as possible.

Chris Hill: That helps you be efficient when you need to get an episode out like AWS Morning Brief. I don't think it's any secret you record those on Friday, you know, Friday afternoon, Eastern time for us. And then we put it through on the weekend. The fact that you have a good mic that sounds good, that just works when you, when you plug it in and record means that our team can take it and edit it a lot faster because otherwise we're cleaning up sound.

Chris Hill: We're trying to reduce plosives. We're doing all these things on the back end to do extra work. And sometimes it makes you sound even worse because we have to process it.

Corey Quinn: And to speed it up, you have me now recording, and you have for years, into audition. So I assume you're just basically an Adobe stockholder, but okay, cool, whatever.

Corey Quinn: And that it already gets there, laid out, ready to go, ready for mixdown. I can have multiple takes, uh, mark certain things. It's just easier for people to work with for tight turnarounds. For something like this, where we'll do a recording, there's usually not intense time pressure to turn it around. It's like, I would, I would like this episode to drop before my jokes at AWS's expense about their obsession with generative AI.

Corey Quinn: have aged too much. But other than that, it's going to be fine. We don't need to have this, this instantaneous turnaround for this part of it. But what happened last week in AWS, there's an implicit time limit on how long you can take to get that stuff out.

Chris Hill: Exactly. And so we want to make sure that it's captured well.

Chris Hill: So we're not saying, Hey, Corey, that episode didn't come through. Hey, you know, that audio sounds terrible. Hey, you know, this needs to be fixed. Like we're doing everything possible to make that happen. And yeah, in the beginning we had to go through a bunch, we had to dial things in, but I mean, we're at a point now where We don't have to do much of anything.

Corey Quinn: Stay with 204 Audition, I can see the waveform, which tells me real freaking quick if I, you know, forgot to toggle the physical mute button on my desk. I, uh, might have sent you a couple of empty tracks before we started using that.

Chris Hill: I think you might have. I think you might have. I, I can't, I can't recall. But I mean, if you did, we yelled at you and you got it done .

Corey Quinn: You were always very polite about it. That's the important part.

Chris Hill: Professionally yelled at you. I should say .

Corey Quinn: Exactly. Now sure. I'm, once I'm off the phone, you're like, oh yeah, guess what? This ridiculous jackass did this week. I'm sure. But again, dealing in a professional context versus complaining to your spouse, different worlds entirely.

Corey Quinn: Uh, I, again, I, I, I know I say this to people a lot. One-on-one, but I should probably say it here where I can be quoted. I'd say out of context, except it really isn't. I am thrilled to pieces to be a HumblePod customer. I recommend you every time I get the opportunity to make a podcast, production company recommendation.

Corey Quinn: Just increasingly happening, especially since it seems like, Wait, I'm a white guy. I should have a podcast. And sure enough, people are doing it. And you've had a number of folks come in who are now producing podcasts through you. I. Again, you are the right answer because there's so much stuff involved in a podcast that I don't have to think about.

Corey Quinn: I only have the vaguest sense even exist. So happy customer, please put me on the website.

Chris Hill: Oh, we will. We'll, uh, we'll clip this out and use it as a promo for us.

Corey Quinn: Oh, my big happy jackass smile the whole time. That'd be great. Everyone will love it. So if people want to learn more, where should they find

Corey Quinn: you?

Chris Hill: humblepod. com. That's the easiest place to find the business. We've got a lot of information on there. Um, we even have a gear guide. Now we do not have our video gear guide up yet. At some point in the future, I will get to that. But, uh, we do have a audio gear guide where you can find, you know, whether you're doing solo at home or whether you want to do in person recordings, I've got some setups there for people and that was updated at the end of last year.

Chris Hill: So everything in there should be Relatively up to date. Um, you can always reach out to us with questions as well. We're on Twitter at Humble Pod or X or whatever they're calling it these days. I'm just going to say Twitter, Twitter at Humble Pod. And then you can find us even on Tik TOK. Now, um, you can find me at the Christoffelis or Christoffelis on Twitter, Instagram, pretty much anywhere online.

Chris Hill: We'll have those links in the show notes, of course, for you guys, but yeah, definitely come check us out. We're happy to talk to anybody, even if you just want to, you know, bat around an idea with us.

Corey Quinn: And you will, of course, put links to all of that into the show notes. People think I do that? My God, no. I, I have people for that now, don't you know, Chris, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me.

Corey Quinn: I appreciate it.

Chris Hill: Absolutely, Corey. It's been a pleasure.

Corey Quinn: Chris Hill, CEO of HumblePod. I'm cloud economist, Corey Quinn, and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five star review on your podcast platform of choice. Whereas if you hated this episode, please leave a five star review on your podcast platform of choice.

Corey Quinn: Along with an angry, insulting comment. That I'll never read because you probably forgot to plug your keyboard in like some sort of unprofessional jackass.